The Fire Protection Podcast visits the Frederick Grinnell Education Center in Cranston, RI. Devin O'Leary, from Johnson Controls, sits down with Drew to chat about training both virtual and hands-on. Where does the future of fire protection education go? How does the industry grow a better trained workforce?
Full Transcript
Drew Slocum: (00:09):
This is episode 12 of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect Point. Today, my guest is Devin O'Leary. Devin is a training manager at Johnson Controls up in Cranston, Rhode Island. He heads up the training center, the Frederick Grinnell Education Center in Cranston, which houses a lot of, uh, the Tyco product, the Johnson Controls product now, uh, training facility for Sprinkler, mainly sprinkler, some suppression, uh, huge fire pump room, uh, live fire testing as long, uh, as well as I think there was about 16 risers in their facility. It was a great day. I've been up there prior in, in past years. They've definitely grown it. And what we discussed is essentially fire protection training in the industry, where it has been, what improvements can be made to it, and kind of the future of that going forward. Uh, toward the end, we get into some digital technology as well, uh, near and dear to our hearts here at Inspect Point. So, um, yeah, hope you enjoyed the podcast, and, uh, make sure to subscribe.
(01:28)
Just wanna give a quick little update on the Inspect Point side of things next week from October 2nd through the fourth, uh, inspect Point will be at the AFSA show out in San Diego, I believe we're booth number 8 0 9, so feel free to stop by myself, Britteny and Nick will be there, uh, debuting some of the new, uh, modules that we have out. Our, our proposal features, our sales features. Essentially, it's almost a mini CRM within the platform for fire protection, so please, uh, stop by. And, um, yeah, we have some big news coming up with some, uh, big, uh, module releases toward the end of the year, as well as some, uh, digital technology coming out here soon. So please stay tuned and keep tuning into the podcast. Enjoy.
Drew Slocum: (02:21):
So, we're here at the, uh, Tyco, uh, Frederick Grinnell Education Center here in, uh, Cranston, Rhode Island, uh, here with, uh, Devin O'Leary of J jci, the old Tyco, uh, fire Protection Products. So,
Drew Slocum: (02:36):
Um,
Drew Slocum: (02:39):
Yeah, we're here at the training center. Wanted to go over a little bit on, uh, just what they're doing here, what the benefits of, of training platforms are in the industry, and kind of the future of that moving forward. So, uh, thanks Devin for, for joining. Thanks for having me.
Devin O'Leary: (03:01):
Yeah, sure. For the, for those of you that don't know me, uh, Devin O'Leary, been with Johns Controls Tyco since, um, 2013, January 1st. Um, so coming up on seven years, worked for FM Global at their large scale fire testing and research facility in West Gloucester, Rhode Island, um, for almost six years prior to that. So, been the industry close to about 13 years. Um, was a trainer here for a long period of time, and then became the manager of training about, uh, two years ago this past June. So,
Drew Slocum: (03:31):
Great. Yeah. Why, uh, you know, I came on, I started my career with Tyco. Most people probably know this by now, but, uh, this, this facility has been big to learning for a lot of different professionals in fire protection. So, why, uh, why name a Frederick Grinnell, by the way,
Devin O'Leary: (03:50):
Well, um, if you've been in this industry for any period of time, you know, Grinnell is, uh, kind of a staple name in the fire protection industry. And with that being said, uh, this site we're on today in Grantson, Rhode Island was actually the, the original Grinnell site from the early and late 18 hundreds. So we started in 18 69, 70 ish, when Grinnell purchased a manufacturing, uh, company for fire extinguishing apparatus. Um, he then started to sell a sprinkler from a gentleman by the name of Henry Parmley mm-hmm.
Drew Slocum: (04:37):
The link?
Devin O'Leary: (04:38):
Yeah, the Grinnell sprinkler was the first one. He was the one that separated the, uh, heat activated, heat sensitive element from the water. So the pond sprinkler had a lot of, um, interaction with the water and the piping network, so it took a little bit longer for it to activate. Gotcha. So ll was the first one that came out with the quick response, fast response sprinkler by separating,
Drew Slocum: (04:58):
Separating those two. And
Devin O'Leary: (04:59):
Then for those of you don't, I put the quotes up, the quick and fast response
Drew Slocum: (05:06):
Uh, for those who haven't been up here, if, if you ever get a chance to, to come to Rhode Island, I don't know if you, do you allow any fire protection professionals come in? Just look at the museum?
Devin O'Leary: (05:16):
I mean, with a quick email or a phone call, I would've No problem with that.
Drew Slocum: (05:19):
Um, highly recommend it. It's awesome. It's, uh, it's a great history lesson in, in fire protection, not only fire sprinkler.
Devin O'Leary: (05:26):
Yep. Yeah. It, it's home to about, um, I'd say 150 sprinklers out there. And we have a actual, an actual museum in the training facility that's a hundred sprinklers, 150 sprinklers, both pro prototype band manufactured ones they're on, are on glass display cases. There's, um, old castings. There's old documentation from the 18 hundreds of all the stuff. We,
Drew Slocum: (05:50):
We got his desk out there too. Right. We have his
Devin O'Leary: (05:51):
Desk out there that him himself and his son both used. Wasn't there
Drew Slocum: (05:54):
A story back in the, uh, somebody found something in the desk? No,
Devin O'Leary: (05:57):
It's locked. That's the story. It's, it's still locked ax. It's still locked. Um, nobody's opened it. Nobody's opened it. Drawer locked. We could have 65 more fats or a hundred year old banana. We don't know what may be in there.
Drew Slocum: (06:09):
Are you
Devin O'Leary: (06:09):
Serious? Yeah. It's locked. Yeah.
Drew Slocum: (06:11):
Nobody's opened
Devin O'Leary: (06:11):
It. Nobody's opened it. Why? I don't know. It's a skeleton key. Nobody's, it's kind of been the, oh,
Drew Slocum: (06:16):
Come, come on.
Devin O'Leary: (06:18):
Drew Slocum: (06:20):
Years. You should bring in one of those, uh, you know, those, uh, net geo channels, you know, bring it and open it up,
Devin O'Leary: (06:26):
Do an x-ray of it, or look and look, look through it. Right. Yeah. That's cool. But yeah. But the, the, the museum is a, is a, is a, an awesome spot for, for us to use on our breaks. We do it part of our tours on, on your break time during the trainings that going on here. People like to roam around it and take pictures and look at the stuff there. If you're into history at all, and, and you're in, into this industry at all, um, it's, it's a really good place to be.
Drew Slocum: (06:53):
Cool. No, that's great. Frederick Grinnell's, uh, near and dear to our, our hearts at Inspect Point, cuz he's an alumni of our, our, uh, rinser. Yes. Rpi. Rpi. Yeah. I always gotta point that out to the deputy p folks out there. Yeah. So I've done it a a few times, but, um, yeah, we're fine. Okay. Little background noise. You know, I, I, I did a, the second to last podcast at a bar. So
Devin O'Leary: (07:36):
16.
Drew Slocum: (07:37):
16 risers,
Devin O'Leary: (07:38):
Functional risers. There's
Drew Slocum: (07:39):
Two, uh, two rooms for,
Devin O'Leary: (07:42):
Yep. So with the fire demonstration cells, which, um, are connected to the sprinkler risers, um, and whatever training we're doing on what product we're doing, on what type of system we're doing, we can showcase how that system actually works in a real fire event.
Drew Slocum: (07:56):
Okay. So you're setting off fires. We're
Devin O'Leary: (07:58):
Lighting the fire Wow. Sequence of events. You see this fire growth, we, we yell at the times and temperatures throughout the fire. The sprinklers activate eventually, if it's a dry system, for example, the air pressure would discharge off the sprinklers, the valve would eventually trip water would start to flow and we'd start to control that fire. Right. To show the, the students how that actually works in a real fire event.
Drew Slocum: (08:17):
Right. No, it's the, there's a third room too. I, I, I don't think I've ever
Devin O'Leary: (08:21):
Seen that. So the, the third room up, up in the back of the ramp, that's our suppression area. Um, we do support our special hazard and suppression system business, um, being, for example, Ansel. Yeah. Um, it is our sister company. Um, we have two, we have a foam pump skid. We have a foam bladder tank that are both functional. Um, we can dip, dump into the, the discharge and discharge into the fire demonstration. Oh, really? Fight with a foam. Yep.
Drew Slocum: (08:45):
Oh, you put an alcohol or something, or
Devin O'Leary: (08:47):
A, we put a, we put a heptane Heptane fire. Just a fuel fire. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have, um, two gastric systems, Sapphire and Enogen, both functional, and we have statics displays due to do some TM on 'em. Um, we have kitchen hood systems.
Drew Slocum: (08:59):
Do you let people still, uh, go in the, the discharge from the south fire? No,
Devin O'Leary: (09:05):
That. Just got ahold of that
Drew Slocum: (09:06):
One. Yeah. Right.
Devin O'Leary: (09:46):
You should use that for your podcast voice
Drew Slocum: (09:48):
Right? Yeah. But, uh, so, so you don't let anybody in there anymore? No.
Devin O'Leary: (09:55):
And then the last room we have is, uh, we have, we also support fire, the fire pump inspection, testing, maintenance world out there because it's a huge piece to the puzzle. I mean, we have no, uh, footprint in the fire pump or driver industry as a manufacturer, but from a technical training standpoint Oh yeah. It's a huge piece of the puzzle if it's, if it's needed. Yeah. And it's a huge driver to a lot of the trainings that go on
Drew Slocum: (10:16):
Here. Yeah.
Devin O'Leary: (10:17):
They're usually touched off. And we have a diesel driven, electric driven and a vertical turbine fire
Drew Slocum: (10:21):
Pump. Yeah. And, and, and I think I've been to maybe one or one or seen one of the fire pump trainings. It it is pretty accessible what you guys do here. Yeah.
Devin O'Leary: (10:30):
We can flow upwards of 1500 gallons a minute in the building.
Drew Slocum: (10:33):
Yeah. And you go over all the tm, all the startups, 60 nuts. Yeah. Yeah. For all three different pumps. Yes, sir. So across from that though, there's another room That's the spray,
Devin O'Leary: (10:42):
The spray room. Yes. So we have about, um, 20 sprinklers in the ceiling, um, from all walks of life, really. Even back to the first parlay sprinkler. So you're talking 1880 technology. Yeah. Um, and we actually discharge that. Um, and we can go, we walk through, through all the way up to modern day technology from everywhere from residential sprinklers, attic sprinklers, storage sprinklers, just to show the discharge patterns, the, um, design approach around them and the application. They're used for Windows sprinklers, a lot of, a lot of different sprinklers used. Um, and showcased through a, what we call our spray demonstration. Cool. We activate the sprinklers with an iPad
Drew Slocum: (11:17):
And we talk Oh, really? Yeah. We,
Devin O'Leary: (11:19):
It's all wireless relays. What do you use wireless relays and
Drew Slocum: (11:23):
Like an app or something?
Devin O'Leary: (11:24):
No, you just connect to a router and just hit a wireless relayr. There's an app on there on the solenoid, you know, a web base, and you activate the solenoid and whatever one you hit, discharges water.
Drew Slocum: (11:32):
Really.
Devin O'Leary: (11:33):
And so from the instructor standpoint, you can speak through it and just by hitting a button, it's not very difficult to keep the attention of the voice. Just turn on the extended
Drew Slocum: (11:40):
Coverage. Oh yeah. K2 five. I remember back in the day you had to go behind the wall.
Devin O'Leary: (11:45):
Nope. Not
Drew Slocum: (11:45):
Anymore. Like the Wizard of Oz back
Devin O'Leary: (11:47):
There.
Drew Slocum: (11:56):
That's good. Um, so again, and Devin will give out how to, how to get up here, you know, at the end of the, at the end of the podcast. Uh, but why is training, you know, I kind of understand it, but for the listeners out there, why is, it's a pretty easy question. Why is training important? But we'll, we'll kind of dive into that as we talk
Devin O'Leary: (12:15):
About it. Yeah. It is an easy question. I mean, from the, from the common sense standpoint. However, when you really start to dive into it, it, it's, it's such a valuable asset to one, make a strong team. I mean, you start training, let's forget what we're doing now. What I do on a day-to-day basis, you start training at such an early age, you're trained how to do things from birth to, through elementary and middle school, through high school, through college. Sure. And to think that it needs to stop at a certain point, right. Because you're doing your profession or you're doing your job. Right. Is is crazy. Yeah. I mean, it also is a good way to, to say thank you to your people, I think Right. Adding some employee reten, it adds employee retention. Mm-hmm.
Drew Slocum: (13:07):
Right. Really
Devin O'Leary: (13:08):
With the 40%. Wow. It's a big number. If they're not trained effectively to do their job that they've been hired to do, they'll say, and how much of that 40% are you losing of good employees? Right. And just not being trained and brought up to speed and the job they're required to do.
Drew Slocum: (13:23):
Sure, sure,
Devin O'Leary: (13:24):
Sure. It's a big number. Um, engagement of employees, training employees is and giving them growth opportunities. Yep. I mean, it's a perfect way to show them the company's invested in them and their future. Yeah. And you're only gonna promote good results from and, uh, for the company if, if the company, if the employees feel needed, if they feel wanted. And you're investing time and money into them. Right. Training's huge.
Drew Slocum: (13:47):
Um, yeah. I know being, you know, coming up through the, the Tyco ranks, uh, back in the day, that was one of the big things that kept me around, honestly, for, for as long. And it, you know, was there for 10 years and went through a lot of their different training programs and it, it provided value. It made me want to go to work every day. And it made me more powerful as a heck Yeah. As a
Devin O'Leary: (14:10):
Professional. That was my next one, was good old fashioned skill development. Yes. I mean, you're, you're, when you train and you develop the skills to do your job correctly, effectively, efficiently, um, you're just gonna have a positive impact as an employee on what you do. You're gonna feel good about what you do. Sure. Cause you're confident in what you're doing. Sure. And the business is just gonna benefit from that. Right. So, um, those are just three big ones. Right. There's so many more that are, that are out there that just, that there's so much that can go into, into what good training and development program for employees can
Drew Slocum: (14:45):
Do. Yeah. I mean, and training can be multifaceted, but why, why here? Why, why hands on?
Devin O'Leary: (14:51):
Well, we don't only do hands on, don't, let's, let's, um, but we do a lot of, I mean, we have a 50 person auditory. Yeah. We teach a lot of PowerPoint based trainings mm-hmm.
Drew Slocum: (15:59):
Yeah, yeah.
Devin O'Leary: (16:00):
Right. Um, it's, it's, there's, it's hard to keep people's attention in the classroom. It is. However, when you get into an environment where you're putting the students and you're making them learn, you're making them do the learning by putting their hands on it, it's kinda hard for them not to be paying attention. Yeah. Cuz they're actually doing work.
Drew Slocum: (16:17):
Yeah. It, it, it, it's, it's interesting you say that. We've, uh, uh, you know, with the, so with our software, we've started partnering with different, um, training centers around the us. Some of them are, are locals, uh, sprinkler fitter locals. Some of 'em are, are training facilities for specific companies as well as just other manufacturers. They wanna bring a general air has a brand new training center. Sure. Which is, which is great. I think you guys are, are you going down there at some
Devin O'Leary: (16:46):
Point? Yeah. We're, we're planning a training down there in the next couple months. Yeah.
Drew Slocum: (16:49):
So,
Devin O'Leary: (16:50):
Um, we're closely with them. Often they're
Drew Slocum: (16:51):
Bringing in different manufacturers, obviously, and, and trying to get just the knowledge out there. Obviously they wanna get their knowledge out there about their air compressors. And that's, you know, obviously you wouldn't have this for, for no reason. Exactly. But the more knowledge out there, the better equipped, uh, the companies are to do that. So
Devin O'Leary: (17:08):
Without a doubt,
Drew Slocum: (17:09):
Uh, those hands-on facilities are, are, are powerful even on the software side of things. Mm-hmm.
Devin O'Leary: (17:21):
And, and just to talk to that point more, we, we do something similar with Simplex. Yep. Up at, up in Westminster, mass, where they have a whole hands-on training facility on programming. Really, um, all their panels on walking through how to step-by-step processes with 'em. It's very similar. Not so much similar to, I mean Sure. Fire alarm compared to sprinkler. Two different, two different industries. Yeah. However, same premise. We're gonna teach you some on the PowerPoints, but then we're gonna let you actually do
Drew Slocum: (17:44):
The work. I would like to get up there.
Devin O'Leary: (18:07):
Sprinkler Groover.
Drew Slocum: (18:09):
But, um, and suppression. I've done a lot of that as well. But fire alarm. Love to get more deep into that. So, so yeah, we've obviously training's important. Onsite training's important, you know, the PowerPoint's important. Um, where, where do you see that kind of the next, what is the next step of training?
Devin O'Leary: (18:33):
That's, that's a good question. I mean, obviously there's, there's pros and cons to technology and the VR side of play from virtual, virtual training and, um, online based training, which we, we have a platform for. Yeah. Um, but, uh,
Drew Slocum: (18:49):
Wanna see online platform,
Devin O'Leary: (18:50):
Uh, online tech exchange.com Okay. Is something where we have all of our, um, intern, our external, excuse me. Customers can go on, they can create a username and password. Right. They can get access to roughly right now, I think there's about 15 to 20, uh, already pre-recorded e-learning Sure. Webinars on there about all different types. NP 25, they
Drew Slocum: (19:11):
Have to be a customer
Devin O'Leary: (19:12):
Or you just sign up anybody You can just do general enrollment and sign up. Yep. Wow. Anyone? Yeah. Um, just would sign up under the general enrollment, um, tab. There is one that says authorized distributors and yeah. However, just sign up under general enrollment. You'll gain access to it for free. Yep. And then you'll also gain access to all of our live trainings that we do here, um, as well. So you could even register for a live training here and see the costs and what the course objectives are. Sure. Long, uh, the duration of it dates all the above. And Yeah. Our training coordinator keeps, keeps that pretty up to
Drew Slocum: (19:44):
Date and Okay,
Devin O'Leary: (19:45):
Great. Up to par. Yeah. So that's all available to anybody. Um, but to answer the question, I f see a huge benefit in online based trainings. Um, also as well as virtual reality based trainings. However, this industry, I feel what, what you and I had just spoke about a moment ago, putting your hands on it is where the rubber meets the road. Mm-hmm.
(20:32)
And in this example, because the system's in perfect working condition. Right. You're there because something's wrong at two o'clock in the morning and you need to figure out how to make that thing work, um, and get it back into service. So I feel that putting your hands on it and, and, and, and engaging that piece of equipment and troubleshooting it from that standpoint is the most effective way to, to, um, to, to train. However, there's a lot of, I see virtual reality is huge. Mm-hmm.
Drew Slocum: (21:12):
Scanning, and I've brought this up before
Devin O'Leary: (21:25):
Testing.
Drew Slocum: (21:25):
Alright. Alright. Um, yeah, on the manufacturer side, like there's a lot of data that I think is being missed. Um, you know, with our software, we're, we're gathering a lot of this deficiency data where, where products are, what, what is going on with them. And, you know, the manufacturer puts on a QR or barcode just to pull up a data sheet. There's a lot more I think you can do with that. And I think it's moving that way, whether it's with R F I D tagging or, uh, smart QR codes that do that, do more powerful things Sure. Than just Sure. Just pull up a data sheet. And I think the vr um, the, the VR, you know, is a good first step or you know, maybe it's the next step. Exactly. I think because there are younger techs that can get that.
Devin O'Leary: (22:14):
And that's for I was gonna say that too. I'm gonna, I'm excited to see where it can go because just from, I mean, I'm young still and so are you for that matter, however, just to see where technology has gone in the last 10
Drew Slocum: (22:25):
Years. Yeah. I can't,
Devin O'Leary: (22:26):
I'm only more excited to see what's gonna come
Drew Slocum: (22:28):
The next 10 years. It's something cool. It's,
Devin O'Leary: (22:30):
It's all in your hand.
Drew Slocum: (22:31):
All in your hand, you know
Devin O'Leary: (22:32):
What I mean? It's all sitting there right in your hand. I feel like you're gonna have a lot more ways of connecting with these things and, and being in tune with these, uh, our products or the products out there in the industry just from some type of app or some type of Right. Platform you can go on. Yeah. And, and, and just get, get all the information you need. Sure. So I, I think, I think it's gonna come. I, I think it's just gonna take some time. I think, and again, you can't teach an old dog new tricks. No. No. So you get these old guys out there that like to touch their hands dirty, feel it, and get their hands dirty.
Drew Slocum: (23:05):
Which, you know, the whole online training thing. And there's really only one certification in the fire protection industry. I mean, fire alarms got their own thing, but on the, uh, at least on the sprinkler side. And I believe some of the suppression side, it's ny right? Yep. And that is only test based mm-hmm.
(24:01)
Um, you almost need a certification to learn how, how to do to get through. Nice. A and I would love to have Nice a on the podcast and that's probably, I'll reach out to them
Devin O'Leary: (24:58):
It's interesting. Yeah. We, um, so we just to prove, just to beat home that point even more is when you say people may be better at taking tests than others, even though they're better at their job because they're just, they people get anxiety over testing.
Drew Slocum: (25:10):
Yes, they do.
Devin O'Leary: (25:11):
Especially people
Drew Slocum: (25:12):
That are everybody. Everybody
Devin O'Leary: (25:13):
Does. Especially people that work in the field.
Drew Slocum: (25:14):
Correct. Field
Devin O'Leary: (25:15):
Guys aren't good at testing. And that's, that's, I can attest to that because I came from the field myself,
Drew Slocum: (26:01):
Is Yeah. Yeah.
Devin O'Leary: (26:02):
Um, of training and continuing education.
Drew Slocum: (26:03):
Well, CEUs are different than the nices CPDs. Oh,
Devin O'Leary: (26:07):
CPDs. I thought Nicet Nice. Need CEUs. I may have been
Drew Slocum: (26:09):
No. Maybe wrong. Professional engineers need CEUs.
Devin O'Leary: (26:12):
S You're right. I apologize.
Drew Slocum: (26:13):
No, no, it's, it's a good, it's a good, it's a training topic, right. CPDs could be a sales presentation. Exactly. Whatever. Which is still knowledgeable. But CEUs that's, that's powerful. Having that third
Devin O'Leary: (26:24):
Party Oh, we go through rigorous, rigorous audits. Yeah. And our training pro programs go through those audits. Um, and we have to follow an, an ISAT standard for continuing education. Wow. Oh yeah. It's very And and we're actually the only manufacturer, sprinkler manufacturer that does it. Wow. That offers isat and, and CEUs, uh, well said CEUs
Drew Slocum: (26:43):
Onsite. Onsite.
Devin O'Leary: (26:45):
Yes. Yeah. It has to be cranston. And it's specific to this location, specific to our trainings. Wow. You like even our sister locations can't use it. Um, but even they even have our, our instructor's resumes to make sure that they're knowledgeable enough to teach what we're teaching. Yeah. They have enough background information. So there, there's, there's a lot that goes into it. Wow. With that being said, um, back to the point of, uh, the CE is in, in the, in the, in the certifications. It's being able to at least have a good feeling at the end of the day that this person that you're training knows what they're doing. We've developed these, what they call JS and their job performance requirements, which instead, which are our testing mechanism, except for instead of giving a written test Right. It's actually a handbook that has all the requirements that I'm gonna expect this attendee to know how to do before the end of this class from testing an alarm device to turning on a control valve.
(27:43)
Right. All the step by step procedural instructions. Sure. But the only difference is they're allowed to ask us how to do it till they feel comfortable get help from the instructor. Oh, wow. And the instructor then can and, and can then help them. So in turn, the instructor's comfortable signing off on a piece, a certificate that says this guy knows what he's doing. Sure. And the attendees comfortable saying, I know what I have to do because when I leave here, I'm gonna be doing it at somebody else's building, somebody else's facility. I'm gonna feel a lot more comfortable. Yeah. You get people that are testing. The guys are some people who are unbelievable at testing and they, they failed test. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they can't go through a book, they can't find the answers. But when you put 'em in front of the valve, they do it better than the person they got a hundred on. Oh
Drew Slocum: (28:23):
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So
Devin O'Leary: (28:24):
We, we, we've looked for ways that were acceptable and, and from the accrediting standpoint, um, and this was one job performance requirements. It's done within military, it's done in all different functions. Interesting. Of industry. And it's just a way of, of testing and verifying that somebody knows how they, what they're
Drew Slocum: (28:41):
Doing. So how many hours do they come outta here with?
Devin O'Leary: (28:43):
So depending on the class, I think our longest one is inspections testing maintenance, which is n fp 25 based training. It's a two in three quarter day class. I think they get 1.6. So it'd be 16 hours or 1.4 I believe. Cause it's one hour to 0.1 ceu. Um, so I think it's 16 hours or seven. But you can't, again, you can't, I can't include breaks. I can't include lunch hours. No, no,
Drew Slocum: (29:06):
No. Yeah,
Devin O'Leary: (29:07):
Yeah, yeah. Sense demonstrations aren't even some demonstrate. So, so I
Drew Slocum: (29:10):
Mean, you could, you could almost, you know, put that equal to a, an I set or an As e
Devin O'Leary: (29:15):
Essential. You almost, you're certified. I mean, it's approved
Drew Slocum: (29:18):
Equal. I think that would be, that'd be good if, if the industry would accept
Devin O'Leary: (29:21):
That. We're seeing, we're starting at the beginning of the book teaching definitions, going all the way to how to inspect, test and maintain fire pumps and double into our pre-action runs. Yeah. And a lot of times you're getting people from all different industries, meaning Sure. AHJs, you're getting the, um, insurance folks that are out there doing
Drew Slocum: (29:41):
Work. Right. Where you're getting
Devin O'Leary: (29:42):
The inspectors, you're getting. Right. So for us as instructors, it's difficult. Cause we're wearing 10 different hats. Right.
Drew Slocum: (29:48):
Devin O'Leary: (29:49):
Customers. Different customers, right.
Drew Slocum: (29:51):
Yeah. Fire officials here today, which is We do. Which is a great thing. Yep. Um, who needs to be trained the most?
Devin O'Leary: (30:01):
Me? No
Drew Slocum: (30:05):
So this is specific, just say to fire
Devin O'Leary: (30:07):
Protection.
Drew Slocum: (30:08):
Yeah. Just to fire protection.
Devin O'Leary: (30:09):
I would say field staff. Field staff. Without a doubt. Okay. There's so much turnover in it to the, due to the, the, I mean, there's so much backlog. Sure. There's so much turnover from a, from a, from a personnel standpoint and Right. I think in all, in all in all companies. Um, and that's due to, it's, it's lack of training or the requirements needed to be able to physically do the work. Nice. A Right. In certain jurisdictions, you need to be certain levels of nice e certain levels of Yes. Different, different, um, licensing, uh, levels to Right. To actually even physically go there and do the work. Right. At that site in the state Rhode Island, I'm not allowed to touch our fire protection. What? I'm not nice
Drew Slocum: (31:04):
Track
Devin O'Leary: (31:04):
House. Yeah. Then, um, the even in, in second and very close is the authorities have jurisdiction.
Drew Slocum: (31:10):
Yeah.
Devin O'Leary: (31:10):
Yeah. Knowledge is power. Yep. It is. And these standards, these things change constantly.
Drew Slocum: (31:15):
And they have so many standards they have to take. They're
Devin O'Leary: (31:18):
Involved in it. There's so many. Exactly. It's
Drew Slocum: (31:19):
Not just fire protection
Devin O'Leary: (31:20):
Systems. It's not just fire protection. There's so many theories and systems and products that are constantly changing. And to continually educate them is the only way we're gonna be able to, from any manufacturing standpoint, only way you're gonna get your products accepted and acceptable within the
Drew Slocum: (31:33):
Industry.
Devin O'Leary: (31:34):
Right. Is to have them on your side. Yes. So I think, I think that's, that's very close, if not equal to the field staff that's out there.
Drew Slocum: (31:42):
Yeah. That's good. That's a good per, I, I just thought of that off the top of my head of who, who needs the, the training the most.
Devin O'Leary: (31:47):
Yep.
Drew Slocum: (31:48):
Well, cool. Um, kind of the sidebar last, uh, last topic and, uh, what, what is coming, you know, we talked about future training, whether it's, you know, a little, little bit of vr, some, uh, you know, there's a lot of classrooms popping up throughout the country, which is, it's good. Whether it's a contractor or local Sure. Apprenticeship program or just local, uh, little manufacturers. Fire tech I think is a, a big one. Yep. In the Midwest. Yep. They, they do a bunch of different things. So that, that's good. I'm glad there's more of that hands-on training. But, um, you know, for inspection, testing and maintenance, is there any in that kind of, uh, technology? Is there anything, uh, what's coming, I guess?
Devin O'Leary: (32:34):
Yeah. So pretty recently, um, and this is something that John's controls and Tyco and, uh, I've been working on, um, pretty recently at the sub debt in the, which was just last week. Last week or two weeks ago. And, um, last week, I think, what is its debt, uh, suppression detection conference. Oh, that's what it's called. Sub debt. Where's that? It was in Denver. Oh, man. Man, it's every year. Yeah.
(33:21)
And basically, in a nutshell, what it is, is, I don't know if anybody's ever heard the term internet of things uhhuh or basically it's a way of connect, having all your devices connected. For example, your homes have smart temperature controls. You get alerts when the heat's on, you get alerts when the doorbell rings, you get alerts when all this stuff's happening. My wife just turned the acm. So Exactly. You know, so you're connected in some way, shape, or form. And then that goes for all industries outside of home. Um, for, uh, automotive, you have diagnostics from your vehicle, um, you have retail, you get theft, prosec protection, your, somebody's using your credit card. It's connected in some ways, shape or form. So it's a way, the internet of things is a way of connecting, uh, any devices via mechanical or digital devices. And having them connected on some web-based platform, cloud based platform.
(34:09)
Sure. So people can be alerted and connect them to human beings. Right. With that being said, um, John's controlled and the TY over repair, they looked at a way of doing that with the inspection, testing, maintenance of some of your systems. Mm-hmm.
(34:50)
Yep. That pressure transducer is connected to a small device. That device is connected to the internet. Right. And it's transmitting out to a cloud-based platform, letting people basically log in on their computer and see the health, overall health of their systems. Sure. Is my, if I seeing air pressure drops and then spikes and air pressure, is my compressor cycling right? Numerous times an hour? Am I having huge ambient temperature changes at nighttime? Yep. So when I'm occupied and unoccupied, it's a huge issue when it comes to, um, the, the piping network, dry systems, dry systems, uh, expansion and contraction due to the temperature. Sure. So, and we have fall trips all the time because of that. Yes. And if I can get an alert that something's happening prior to it actually happening, right. So before it becomes an issue Right. Before the valve goes out there and trips, I can get somebody on site to go out there and check it.
(35:41)
I'm in a much better state when it comes to the, to my overall fire protection. So it, it's not limited to just transducers. They have temperature, uh, thermometers, digital thermometers sitting in low point drains. Yep. So it freezes up Right. Reasons if, if it ever, if there's ever water in there, there's a, there's a, um, there's a sensor to let you know there's water. Right. Also the temperature in that area. So if we needed to go open that low point drain because there's water in it due from residual drain back, yes. We're gonna go do that right away. We're gonna get an alert to do that rather than have it freeze, break the pipe, drain the system of air and dump the system right in the middle of the wintertime. Yeah. Um, so that's one. There's corrosion monitoring, there's water flow sensors to measure gpm. It's a whole product line that they're really looking to, they're really looking to roll out. And I think it's, they're onto something awesome.
Drew Slocum: (36:27):
Yeah. And I think, so I think somebody's gotta push in technology here. I hear you In the industry. It's like
Devin O'Leary: (36:32):
We did just,
Drew Slocum: (36:32):
It's all this, uh, I hate to say it, me too stuff. Not, not the, you know, not the, the whatever. Me too movement, but the me too. Hey, I come out with a sprinkler head. All right. I have, I've got it too. You know, it, it's, and the same thing with the ING and the little changes, but I think the connected to the internet, internet of things is gonna really kind of spur the manufacturing in another, without a doubt. Direction. The big thing is cost. Like, all right, what you're gonna have to analyze whether it's worth it or not. How do you get your owner to buy in? Because there's already margins on, on certain fire protection are already small. So, I mean, how do you get certain technology there? I
Devin O'Leary: (37:13):
Think the, the value add just from one fall strip. I mean, if you, if you
Drew Slocum: (37:17):
Find dry systems, I see it. If you put on a wet system, sure. How do
Devin O'Leary: (37:21):
You do it? I think everything has it applicated. Right. And I don't think you'd see a lot of this in wet systems, or I think it'd be more based towards your higher value and higher asset protection systems. Your preact actions, your your drives, your,
Drew Slocum: (37:32):
But if you could, and so you're, a lot of the stuff you're talking is remote monitoring.
Devin O'Leary: (37:39):
A lot of it is
Drew Slocum: (37:40):
Majority, and this is NFPA 25. They introduced it in, in, I think s uh, 17 and 2020 is really looking at it. Really looking at it. Yeah. I know you're sitting on
Devin O'Leary: (37:49):
Not quite yet, but not yet. It's not official
Drew Slocum: (37:52):
I, I've been doing some of the 25 meetings. Yeah. And, uh, uh, they're, they're definitely talking about it because, um, there's certain technologies that are ahead of the code at this point. So, uh, if you're on an older code, it's not really accepted yet. Sure. So they're trying to catch up pretty quick.
Devin O'Leary: (38:10):
Perfect example of that is our electronic sprinkler. Yeah. You can't find it in any code.
Drew Slocum: (38:13):
Yeah. Can't find It's in any, can any
Devin O'Leary: (38:14):
Standards. And these standards that were driven drive it. And that's just, again, with this technology Sure. We have a sprinkle that's normally what the industry accepts as a mechanical device. Right. A glass bulb or a fusible link. Right. Now we're attaching a a, a metron and a heat sensor to it. Right. And we're gonna activate it all electronically. Yes. There's no mechanical activation going on. Yes. So it's, it's, it's, our job as a manufacturer is to promote this and push it, but it's also, we need to promote that and push it within the standards to get it acceptable
Drew Slocum: (38:46):
HJ by the standard
Devin O'Leary: (38:47):
H. Exactly. Yeah. And that's, that's what we're working on at
Drew Slocum: (38:50):
This point. I think the remote monitoring, I don't think anybody's gonna have a problem with it. I obviously it's in the code, but you're just gathering information.
Devin O'Leary: (38:57):
I mean, they've already started to accept some of it. The
Drew Slocum: (38:59):
Remote testing is different. That's a whole different scenario. Right. I, I know you guys are working on stuff and all the other manufacturers are as well. Yeah.
Devin O'Leary: (39:07):
Because we even have some
Drew Slocum: (39:09):
Automating solenoid valves,
Devin O'Leary: (39:10):
Automated solenoid valves, control valves. So you don't, so for example, your inspector's test, you have to dump the inspector's test. You can just hit a button from a remote location. Yeah.
(39:18)
Things like that are the, are the unaccepted practices right now, the monitoring stuff, shoot, it's a minimum standard. You can look at anything. You can, I can go do my control valve test 10 times a day if I wanted to. Right. The standard only says I have to do it so many times a week, a quarter or a semi-annually or whatever, depending on how it's, um, supervised. Right. But that doesn't mean I can't go do it every day if I don't want to. Right. So it's a minimum standard. So from the remote monitoring standpoint, I can look at my stuff. It's, it's overkill. I'm Right. I'm really looking at what's going on, the health of my system and being thorough. It's really gonna benefit the end user.
Drew Slocum: (39:55):
Yeah. It will, it's gonna benefit the end user. It'll bring down their cost of and, and increase their cost of, or increase the years of the longevity of the system. Decrease cost of the overall inspection without a doubt. So yeah, we're, uh, we're onto it too. So it's good. It's kind of fun.
Devin O'Leary: (40:31):
Yeah, they just added
Drew Slocum: (40:31):
Sidebar it.
Devin O'Leary: (40:32):
They've just been adding the remote inspection stuff to 25.
Drew Slocum: (40:35):
But, uh, yeah. Fun stuff. Mm-hmm.
Devin O'Leary: (40:45):
No. Anything. I really appreciate you having me on. I, I was looking forward to it. We've been talking about this for a couple months. Yeah. Yeah.
Drew Slocum: (40:50):
Right.
Devin O'Leary: (40:50):
Finally came to fruition. Um,
Drew Slocum: (40:53):
What, uh, uh, what, how do you, how do we get ahold of you? How do we get ahold of the training center? Sure.
Devin O'Leary: (41:00):
How,
Drew Slocum: (41:01):
What's coming up? How do they sign up for training here? I know it's, you're in Rhode Island. It's not for the Northeast. It's pretty easy to get to, but
Devin O'Leary: (41:08):
It's fairly, it's very close to process airport. It's okay. It's 10 minutes away, um, from the airport. Yeah. Um, we actually have a partnership with one of the local hotels. They've actually shuttle people back and forth to our facility for us. Nice. So it's nice. Um, we, with that being said, to get ahold of us, first and foremost, tyco-fire.com, um, typo Fire, excuse me. Um, and that will bring you to our actual Tyco website. Um, on there you'll see online training, um, and you'll get all your contact information on there. Um, it's actually training@tycofp.com. It's not a hard ah, it's easy hot email address to, to reach out to. Um, and if all else fails, just reach out to me. My Devin dot O'Leary, you're gonna spell that out, I'm sure, on the podcast. Oh, yeah. Yeah. At jci.com. Devin period. O'Leary jci.com. I'll get you into the correct people's, um, emails and, uh, contact information, and we can get you anything you may need to run around your training needs. Cool. Yeah. It's, it's, uh, really, really appreciate the time. I think there's a lot
Drew Slocum: (42:09):
We're not done yet. I got a quick response from that you were all nervous about. Set me up for this one.
Devin O'Leary: (42:14):
Ok, here we go. I'm sitting back.
Drew Slocum: (42:16):
Uh, yeah. So I do through a few questions here just to get, uh, you don't know they're coming. So, um, so I, I, I recently, uh, left New York City, uh, with a family and, and moved up to Nice, uh, Eastern Connecticut. Uh, what do you have against Connecticut?
Devin O'Leary: (42:37):
Drew Slocum: (42:41):
There's, there's always a Rhode Island Connecticut battle going on. I don't understand it because Connecticut's fine with Rhode Island. Rhode Island has a problem with Connecticut. For some
Devin O'Leary: (42:48):
Reason, I think Connecticut should be absorbed into New York. Into New York State.
Drew Slocum: (42:55):
Okay. Um,
Devin O'Leary: (42:57):
The reason why it takes me forever to get to New York is because of Connecticut
Drew Slocum: (43:00):
Devin O'Leary: (43:03):
I'll give you that. The, they're always under construction. Um, that's what I have against. That's a funny one. Thank you. Yes. Completely complete absorption into That's, that would be ideal. Thank you.
Drew Slocum: (43:18):
Devin O'Leary: (44:10):
The date of manufacturing.
Drew Slocum: (44:11):
It's off the date of manufacturer. That is the date of manufacturing. That's the date of manufacturing. Right. But what is, what is the code off of? Is it off the date of manufacturer or is it off the date of install? So, because sometimes say it's, you buy it in, you don't install it. 2018, don't install it until 2019. I mean, it's a year. It's a year. But it could, you know, you might have an older head that you have in your shop.
Devin O'Leary: (44:33):
You know, drew, that's a damn good question. Um, and I'm not a hundred percent sure. I would say if I was to answer the question to, to the class, I would look into it to get a, a solid answer. But, and, and the solidified answer. But I think the data manufacturing on the sprinkler is what the HJ is gonna look at. If he goes up, let's put it this way,
Drew Slocum: (44:53):
It's solid. How do you, it's proven. How
Devin O'Leary: (44:55):
Exactly, how do you realize you're at 25 years if you don't have an inspection report from the day it was installed? Right. Or I mean, or a commissioning report from the day it was installed. Right. You don't know if it was January of 18 or November of 17. Sure. Right. Um, so with that being said, your inspection requirement from your sprinkler perspective is a visual inspection. Where do you go? The visual inspection, the date on the, on the sprinkler it says 20 2002 and it's 2027. Well, now we have 25 years, or 20, it'd be 2022, excuse me. Right. 20 years for our Q wash members. Yep. So I think I would, I would recommend going off the data manufacturer on the sprinkler
Drew Slocum: (45:34):
From the contractor manufacturer's perspective. Yes, sir. Uh, I see that. But if I'm a building owner, I'm gonna, I'm gonna fight that. Cause it's not in the, it is actually not in, it's not, I don't think it's not
Devin O'Leary: (45:44):
Good. I've never seen it called out. Maybe in the handbook. Yeah. Of, of NFPA 25, which is unenforceable. Unenforceable. But it's just annex material that may be beneficial in there.
Drew Slocum: (45:53):
If you think about it, if a dry valve or a dry head is sitting on a shelf for five years, you install it, there's no water, there's no pressure against it, there's nothing's still in the box. Right. They should be able to last an additional 10 years. I agree. That's from a building or perspective, from
Devin O'Leary: (46:09):
Building perspective. But you never
Drew Slocum: (46:11):
Know. You don't know that installed data. Guess in
Devin O'Leary: (46:12):
The defense of that, your dry sprinklers, and this is just Yeah. To respond to that. Your dry sprinklers are all built to order due to the fact you don't know how Okay. Thick. You see, you don't know how thick, thick the penetration is that you're going through, you know, the ambient temperature that it's gonna be exposed to all the time. Sure. With that being said, that information dictates how long of the Okay. Piece of pipe that needs to be Yeah. Installed upon that sprinkler. So the, the actual barrel length of that sprinkler. Okay. So when you talk dry sprinklers, um, they're usually built to order, that's why they have longer lead times. Yeah. Due to the fact they're made specifically for the job they're going in on. Yep. So you have a couple extra, you may get a lucky five years down the road and half of it has the exact same barrel length and you would build it there, but for the most part, they're made for that specific application.
Drew Slocum: (46:58):
Right. Unless you have a flexible dry, dry,
Devin O'Leary: (47:01):
Unless you have a flexible dry spot,
Drew Slocum: (47:03):
Which I haven't, you know, I had to compete against that when I was at Viking Deco, but
Devin O'Leary: (47:07):
Yep.
Drew Slocum: (47:08):
Anyway. Not gonna get compet
Devin O'Leary: (47:09):
Against it. Not
Drew Slocum: (47:10):
Gonna get into it now.
Devin O'Leary: (47:11):
That's fine. No, there's nothing.
Drew Slocum: (47:12):
Um, another little quick response question. Uh, dry valve, I asked this a lot cuz I love dry valves for some reason. Low pressure, standard pressure, high pressure,
Devin O'Leary: (47:26):
All the above. Yeah. Um, what's my, what's my preference? Preference
Drew Slocum: (47:30):
Personally, not JCI hat.
Devin O'Leary: (47:33):
And, and I will, uh, I mean I think I'm, uh, the industry's on my side with this one when I do say the teal and that's not me being, um, biased towards the product. Sure. I, I work with on a day-today basis. Other manufacturers make correct products. Yeah. However, ease of use and, um, the dpv one, the drive pipe valve, the Tyco drive pipe valve is, I have voiced a customer from 1800 attendees annually. Sure. Every one of'em, if not nine out of 10 of 'em say this is the best drive valve on the market. Yeah. With that being said, I think there's uses for low pressure valves. Yeah. I think sometimes with a higher pressure, that doesn't always equate to slower water delivery. Right. There's times and instances where the higher pressure can deliver water faster for your, for your water delivery requirements. Right. Just because the, the layout of the piping network and, and, and the, the parts and pieces that are in that sprinkle system. Sure. Um, however, yeah, I mean I, there's many manufacturers. I think a lot of 'em, some of 'em are bombproof, the, the Viking drive out, you could set a bomb off in the room and it's, it's still gonna be
Drew Slocum: (48:41):
Set. They, they found one when I was still there from nine. It was a Titan valve. I think it was 1921. It was at the airport. It still functioned. I
Devin O'Leary: (48:49):
Believe it, it
Drew Slocum: (48:49):
Devin O'Leary: (48:55):
However, I think sim and then to, to that point is simplicity is, is correct. Creates longevity.
Drew Slocum: (49:01):
Yes.
Devin O'Leary: (49:01):
Um, the, the f1 uh, Viking, the DPV one. Yep. It's one moving part. Yep. It's one clapper and one gasket. Yep. Um, the low pressure valve's a good valve if you're, if you are in need of fast water delivery times in a certain, in a particular, um, application, it's gonna be beneficial to you. Sure. Mean I think each of 'em have their use. Yes. However, if I was to pick one Yeah. From every, and, and that's also because there's not really that much. So you say low pressure, we only have a 10 PSI safety factor on our Yeah, yeah. On our TPV one. So it's for pressure plus 10 PSI where NFPA says plus 20, like the F1 takes. Yeah.
Drew Slocum: (49:40):
You need more pressure
Devin O'Leary: (49:41):
To hold it down. Yeah. Cuz of the, we, we have the offset clapper in the, in the, in the differential chamber. So I, so again, I I'm not don't wanna bad mouth any manufacturer. Sure. I think they all create products, but if I had to pick one, it would be the DV one.
Drew Slocum: (49:55):
All right.
Devin O'Leary: (49:56):
With the visor accelerator. Wow.
Drew Slocum: (49:58):
Devin O'Leary: (49:59):
Sorry.
Drew Slocum: (50:00):
Throwing it in there. All right. Last question before we get outta here. Um, I call it chowder. You call it chowder. Chowder. Uh, we got Rhode Island, which I never knew of until you're coming up here. Uh, Manhattan Red or some New England or
Devin O'Leary: (50:17):
White
Drew Slocum: (50:19):
Preference?
Devin O'Leary: (50:20):
White. I
Drew Slocum: (50:21):
Like white. All right. I
Devin O'Leary: (50:23):
Like New England. Thick, creamy potato. Lots of potatoes of clams. All right. It's like more like a beef stew to me. Gotcha. But it, it's like, it's like a, uh, the, the then I would say Manhattan really. And last Rhode Island.
Drew Slocum: (50:36):
And last Rhode Island.
Devin O'Leary: (50:37):
I'm not a big fear of the family. The clear. The clear. It's
Drew Slocum: (50:40):
Just too clammy.
Devin O'Leary: (50:41):
I want some bass to my
Drew Slocum: (50:50):
Devin O'Leary: (51:14):
Thanks again, man. Thanks, man. Appreciate it.
Drew Slocum: (51:17):
Thanks for tuning in to episode 12 of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect Point. Want to thank my guest again, Devon O'Leary for taking, taking a little bit of time today out of his busy schedule. Their, uh, the JCI Training Center is constantly booked with training. So, um, to find out their schedule, go to online tech exchange.com. Uh, exchange is without the E, so it's X C H A N G e.com. Find out all about their schedule there and, um, yeah, hope you enjoyed the podcast and, uh, see you here again soon.