Historical landmarks and the Notre Dame fire with Patrick Bowe of Abco Peerless Sprinkler Company.
In the wake of the tragedy in Paris, France, Drew talks with Patrick Bowe, of Abco Peerless Sprinkler Company. Patrick was heavily involved in the design, coordination and installation of the water mist system protecting St Patrick's Cathedral in New York City. Historical landmarks and the fire protection designs around them are discussed.
Full Episode
Drew Slocum: (00:09):
This is episode five of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect Point. Today my guest is Patrick Bowe , Vice President of Apco Peerless Sprinkler in New York. Today we discuss the Notre Dame fire. We discussed water mist. Patrick and Apco was heavily involved in St. Patrick's Cathedral's automatic suppression and protection system. I had worked on the project initially back in the day, and I believe Apco Peerless went on to actually do the, uh, install there. So we discussed water miss, we discussed the Notre Dame fire, and, you know, just historical landmarks in general. So hope you enjoy the podcast. I know it's a very touchy topic over the last week or so, but hope you enjoy and be sure to subscribe. Thanks, Pat, for coming on. Um, lot to lot to discuss. You know, uh, I've known you for how many years have I known you?
Patrick Bowe: (01:11):
12 or 13, I think.
Drew Slocum: (01:13):
Patrick Bowe: (01:14):
It's been a
Drew Slocum: (01:15):
While. It's been a while. Yeah. I think you were with, uh, JB and B or a kf one of those when we
Patrick Bowe: (01:21):
First met. Yeah. When we first met.
Drew Slocum: (01:23):
But, um, I know you've got your own, your own thing with Apco Peerless now, and, uh, that's obviously going really well. We'll get into that toward the end. But, um, yeah, I wanted to to chat about with you about the, the fire from, from last week, the Notre Dame fire over in, over in Paris, France. Sure. Quite the, uh, quite a tragedy. Everybody's, you know, it's on the, any big fires on the top of every, any newsfeed, obviously, and that one being very historic. So, um, you know, anything, you know, anything about it. I mean, obviously there's a lot of articles about the fire and Yes. How it started and all that.
Patrick Bowe: (02:00):
So, um, I've been, you know, kind of keeping, uh, keeping my eye on, on, uh, media outlets and stuff, uh, regarding the fire. Um, it sounds like, uh, the, the fire was electric, uh, was electrically based. Um, you know, my, my first suspicion about it was that it was, uh, had to do with the renovation work, and I think it may have had something to do with the renovation work they were doing there. Yeah. Um, but it's really, uh, you know, it's really a tragedy. I, you know, uh, you see so many of these fires. There was actually a fire in a, uh, synagogue in Brooklyn the day after. Oh, really? Um, the day after Notre Dame fire, or maybe two days after that got, you know, uh, very little press, uh, except in some New York, uh, media outlets. Um, but it, you know, it, it continues to reinforce this, this idea that, um, these historical that, uh, we have in, you know, Notre Dame.
(03:04)
Notre Dame is over 800 years old. Right. Uh, that, you know, we we're still not really, um, protecting them the way that, uh, that really they should be protected. Um, you know, it's a priceless, it's a priceless building. There's priceless artifacts in there. And, um, you know, the fact that that building made it through, uh, the French Revolution Oh, yeah. And, uh, world War I and World War II without, it's crazy, getting any damage Right. Is really unbelievable. And then there's this small renovation, what, what I would consider small, I think it was a six or $7 million renovation. Um, and it, and it destroyed, you know, the majority of, of the church. And it's really, like I said, it's, uh, you know, it reinforces this idea that, you know, I think there should be, uh, some, obviously some more thought put into, uh, the replaceability of these places. Yeah. Um, and, uh, you know, obviously a, a building that, that kind of occupancy now, you know, in the I BBC would never be able to be built without, uh, some sort of automatic fire protection. So it's, uh, it's an interesting topic that comes, really only comes around when, when something bad happens. Tragedy.
Drew Slocum: (04:23):
Yeah. Yeah.
Patrick Bowe: (04:23):
But, um, it should be, you know, something that's a little bit more top of mind in my, in my opinion.
Drew Slocum: (04:29):
Yeah. And this is, you know, us talking about this, this'll just get the message out there, hopefully a little more. And, you know, there was a, obviously a bunch of issues with, with, uh, what happened over there, and they, it just came and snowballed into one. But, um, I hear they even have, you know, obviously it was, they called it the forest. There was a lot of old timber 800 years old that dried out over 800 years. So it's, so, it's, uh, it's very flammable and very combustible. Um, but I guess I read something the other day in the New York Times about, um, that the, the wood was so dry after the firefighters, and I guess they had some pretty cool firefighting equipment. They even had this robot that came in and called Colossus.
Patrick Bowe: (05:12):
I did see that Colossus
Drew Slocum: (05:13):
Or something, which is pretty cool. I mean, at least there's a little positive about that and showing some, some light on the firefighting side. But they put so much water into that forest area where all the wood was that it soaked up all that water, and now they're having structural issues. So,
Patrick Bowe: (05:30):
Yeah, I mean, I think over the next couple week, uh, weeks, you're gonna hear about, um, you know, uh, studies being done structurally in that building. You know, there, uh, I also read something kind of early on that they were concerned about the stone after it got heated up, that it would've lost, um, you know, some of its strength. So you're gonna be hearing about this kind of stuff, I would say probably for the next six months. And then, um, you know, just finding material to, to rebuild this, uh, this church is gonna be tough, you know? Yeah. I, they can, you know, find construction material to do it. But, um, I read an article saying that, uh, the trees that were, uh, were used to build that portion of the church, they're not even available in France anymore.
Drew Slocum: (06:19):
Wow. Wow.
Patrick Bowe: (06:20):
Yes. So, you know, then we're talking about, you know, putting structural steel in or something like that, where, um, you know, now it's, now it's not the church that it used to be. Yeah. So, I, you know, I think there's gonna be a lot of debate about how it gets rebuilt. Um, you know, I know a lot of money has come in to rebuild it, but I, I wouldn't be surprised if we were talking about some of this stuff 10 years from now, because I think it's gonna take a very long time for people to make decisions and then to actually physically do the, uh, the reconstruction.
Drew Slocum: (06:52):
Yeah. It's gonna be tough. And I'm sure there'll be a lot of people, a lot of money involved, obviously. But, um, yeah, so on, you know, I, I had for listeners not out there, uh, pat, pat and I go a long way back, but I, I know, and we kind of worked on a similar project back, uh, I don't know, I don't know, five, 10 years ago at this point. But, um, you know, uh, uh, at Patrick's company, APCO Peerless, uh, they work on a lot of different things out there, um, a lot in the special hazard realm, which, which kind of, kind of brings up the topic of, of this historical fire. Um, they, uh, they did the renovation for St. Patrick's Cathedral. Um, and there's been a lot of other cathedrals around the us. Uh, Oliver Fire, Oliver Fire did one, uh, the, the Philadelphia Congressional, um, cathedral, and they just did a big, I don't know if you saw that, pat. They did, uh, um, yeah, I did
Patrick Bowe: (07:45):
See that.
Drew Slocum: (07:45):
It was pretty cool. They did the actual, um,
Patrick Bowe: (07:48):
Discharge test.
Drew Slocum: (07:49):
Yeah. I reached out to the guys at Oliver, and they sent me some stuff on the, the discharge test, um, just to, just to kind of promote, it's a, it's a big week, obviously, it's a big holy week, so, hey, let's, uh, let's put this out there that, you know, we're protected. And, um, I don't, I don't know when that retrofit happened, but, um,
Patrick Bowe: (08:10):
Yeah, I'm not sure. I would assume probably within the last five or 10 years would be my guess. Yeah.
Drew Slocum: (08:15):
But I know obviously St. Patrick's is obviously a big name, biggest definitely in the us, um, church and Cathedral wise. So, um, was it, was it fun working on that project? I know you guys are,
Patrick Bowe: (08:29):
It, it was pretty interesting. I mean, uh, the, the, uh, system that was installed there, uh, it, it's performance based, so it's, it's a one of a kind system. Uh, you know, we had to get through some regulatory hurdles with the fire department, um, and, uh, you know, kind of get some, uh, the constructability of it was, was difficult, but it was, it was an interesting to be a part of. Um, and, uh, the, um, the diocese was, was trying to think of, you know, some, some good ways of providing automatic fire protection in that, uh, in that space. And I think they came to something that everybody could kind of deal with, um, as far as, you know, it was minimally invasive, um, but would still, uh, provide, you know, a relatively high, uh, degree of, of protection in some spaces that, uh, if there was a fire in there, it would be a real issue.
Drew Slocum: (09:32):
Right, right. I, yeah, I remember working on that. Um, an engineer that initially, uh, uh, worked on that project reached out to me when I was at Tyco at the time Act asking about, you know, kind of like a, a pre-action system with attic sprinklers. And obviously, you know, it didn't go out that way. You guys, you guys did something else, but that would've been a lot of water, which could have been an issue. And probably the diocese didn't want, want that much water with the regular sprinkler system. So,
Patrick Bowe: (10:00):
Yeah. So, you know, uh, one of the things that, um, people don't really realize is that the ceiling in, uh, St. Patrick's Cathedral is actually not made of stone. Oh. Um, one of the cost cutting, uh, things that they did when they built the cathedral in the 18 hundreds was change that ceiling from stone to wire, lath and plaster. Oh, wow. So, um, you know, that was a concern when the system was being designed, because if you get wire lath and plaster really wet, it's just gonna
Drew Slocum: (10:34):
Fall apart. Yeah. Right. Right. So sprinklers are definitely not an option at that point.
Patrick Bowe: (10:38):
Yeah. So there was a lot of, I think there was a lot of talk about, you know, some different options about what would make the most sense, you know, for the, the structure and the space that they were looking to protect and that kind of stuff.
Drew Slocum: (10:51):
Cool, cool, cool. Yeah, I know, uh, there, there is a missed system in there, obviously, you know, you know, it's, it's interesting how the, uh, the media, uh, says it too. They, they don't say, they say there's a mis system, but I don't think the the public knows what a, what a mis system is. Um, obviously you and I do, but I guess explain just generally what a water mis system is and how it, how it operates.
Patrick Bowe: (11:18):
So there's a, a few different types of water mist systems. Um, you know, what people generally associate with water mist is, uh, you know, high pressure system, which is, you know, operates at a higher pressure than a, a normal sprinkler system. Um, and, uh, really the biggest difference between a, a regular sprinkler system and a water mist system is the droplet size. So, uh, in the system that we installed, I think the droplet size was 10 times less than a normal droplet, um, for a sprinkler system. And really it, you know, combats fire in, in two ways. One is, um, is by, uh, oxygen displacement, which really is, uh, in most water miss systems is, uh, probably the primary, um, primary way of extinguishing fire. And the second is by cooling mm-hmm.
Drew Slocum: (12:39):
And it seems, you know, and I'm gonna have some clean agent people on here soon, and it seems like there's always something transitioning in and out. So is Halan first, I, it was, uh, FM 200, now it's Novak, so there's always some new chemical, but water, water's, you know, around water, water, water's, water. And there is, there is an application for cleanish. I'm not saying that, but, um, I think some of this historical, these historical buildings, I think where, where you can't have a clean agent because of volume and, uh, not volume, but just, uh, it's a leaky system, so you don't have it, it's not fully tight. So, or it's just the cost, you know, cost of a, a clean agent system probably, you know,
Patrick Bowe: (13:24):
A a big thing too is the space. So, you know, if you're, if, uh, you have a large volume that needs to be protected by some sort of clean agent, the space to put all of that agent is definitely, uh, it's definitely a consideration. Right. So I, I do think there are, you know, great applications for, uh, for clean agents or chemical agents. Um, but, uh, I, I see the market kind of, uh, kind of moving away from it from a lot of different perc you know, a lot of different reasons. I think one of the biggest reasons is, um, the amount of, uh, uh, acceptable agents has shrunk, um, the types of, you know, what we used to see historically, uh, types of spaces that were being protected. Um, you know, a lot of, uh, data centers and computer rooms, a lot of them, uh, you know, a lot of the cloud computing, uh, era has kind of eliminated some of this stuff, so, oh, yeah. Yep. Um, you know, we don't see as many, uh, as many rooms that people are building to, to house computer equipment, which would've normally been, uh, something that we would've protected with some sort of clean agent. You
Drew Slocum: (14:36):
Know, uh, you bring that point up. I actually talked to my buddy who works for, uh, for one of the big, uh, who works for Cisco, actually. He brought up a fire, it kind of went under the radar, which I actually might post something about this, but Wells Fargo recently had a big data center fire that their online banking system went down for, for quite a, you know, I don't know if it was over a day, but their online banking system went down. And I don't think it was caused from the fire. It actually was caused from, you know, and I gotta do a little more research on this, but after the, the, the halan or the chemical agent system went off, um, some of the servers had issues keeping up and weren't able to function. So, um, very interesting. I'm gonna definitely dive into that a little more. I, you told me about that on Friday. So I don't know if, uh, I don't know if the fire protection industry knows about that fire that happened a couple months ago.
Patrick Bowe: (15:35):
Yeah, I, yeah, that's the first I've heard of it.
Drew Slocum: (15:37):
Yeah. So, um, anyway, um, yeah, it's got us application. Um, you know, I saw, uh, I've seen some water miss, I was actually just down at a, uh, a nice work trip in Bermuda, which is, uh, always fun to do.
Patrick Bowe: (15:53):
I feel terrible for you,
Drew Slocum: (15:56):
Um, but they're, they're using a lot of, um, vortex down there because they have a lot of historical, that's obviously an old island, but they don't have water either. Right. So, explain a little bit, you know, how, you know how much water, the systems that you've designed, you know, how do they compare versus a sprinkler system?
Patrick Bowe: (16:16):
Um, so, uh, I would say, you know, maybe a 10th of the water, maybe a 50th. It really depends on the type of system. So like a Vortex system is, uh, is considered like a dual fluid system. Yep. It's actually a new, uh, NFPA standard coming out for it. I believe it's that
Drew Slocum: (16:34):
Seven 70. Yeah.
Patrick Bowe: (16:36):
Yeah. Um, it's really a neat, kind of a neat product. Um, you know, you don't have to really worry about any of the enclosure integrity, but you know, that system, uh, the amount of water that you discharge is probably between 25 and 50 times less than what a standard sprinkler, uh, system would, would require to operate.
Drew Slocum: (16:58):
Wow.
Patrick Bowe: (16:58):
Um, which, uh, you know, is, it's significant in, in places where you're concerned about water damage or you don't have enough water to, to meet, uh, you know, a duration for that hazard.
Drew Slocum: (17:09):
Sure, sure. Yeah, I, I know. Now does the water have to be, you know, I know we have the, uh, water mist. So in order to make that mist, you need a very small orifice to push that out of whether you do that through a high pressure pump, or whether you do that through a twin fluid with, with nitrogen or a compressed air or whatever you're doing. Um, there's a few on there. Tyco's got one, vortex f Does Fike have a dual, or is there, or there's just, uh, is it pump driven?
Patrick Bowe: (17:39):
No, they just have a, uh, they have, I believe they have two water mis products. One of them is definitely, uh, you know, they have a package water mis product, and then they have pump, uh, a pump driven water mis product.
Drew Slocum: (17:52):
Oh, nice. Okay. But yeah, it's pushing that, pushing that water through that nozzle to get to those fine droplets. Now, does the, you know, depending on where you're at, does that water have to be, does it have to be like, uh, distilled or is, how does it purify it?
Patrick Bowe: (18:07):
Yes. So there's, you know, every manufacturer is a little bit different. Um, if you have, uh, a sprinkler that has a a k factor of that's, uh, less than, I believe it's less than, uh, 4.2, you actually, it may be 2.8. I'd have to double check. Uh, you have to have a strainer on the, uh, on the actual sprinkler
Drew Slocum: (18:30):
On the line. Oh, on the sprinkler.
Patrick Bowe: (18:31):
Okay. On the actual sprinkler. Uh, but every manufacturer's a little bit different about what they require. I'd have to double check and see which ones, uh, want distilled water, which ones don't. Um, you know, I, that's obviously a, you know, a concern. You know, part of the other thing too is the type of piping that, um, is used to actually transmit the fluid or, um, that water, you know, obviously they're concerned about obstructions in that piping. So, um, you know, some, some manufacturers will only let you use stainless. Uh, some manufacturers will let you use, you know, a combination of a couple different pipe materials. But, uh, you know, it, I think, uh, something that's unique about water mist in general is that it's really manufacture based and performance design based. It's, you know, much less, uh, Stan, you know, I would say much less, uh, generally standard based.
Drew Slocum: (19:28):
Right, right. So there's a problem out there, kind of like what you came across at St. Patrick's where they're like, Hey, we want fire protection. Uh, we don't want any water damage. We don't have, you know, we don't, we structurally can't put anything up there. We have the, the ceiling, which is made of a plaster. So you had to come up with a performance based solution. And that's where obviously water mis fit in. So, yeah,
(19:53)
That's cool. Uh, no, I wanted, I definitely wanted to get you on here to, to ch to chat about that. Obviously there's gonna be more coming out about that fire and what happens and hopefully, and I, I, I hate to see something happen like this to, to push fire protection further. But that, I think that historical realm, I mean, there's, you always hear about a fire of, of a museum, um,
Patrick Bowe: (20:33):
Oh, I believe it was last year. And they were doing roofing work. Yeah. And that's, you know, when a lot of fires start Yeah. When people are doing hot work on roofs.
Drew Slocum: (20:40):
Right. And it was, their entire museum, I believe, was lost or there was a lot of artifacts that were, I mean, that's one of the oldest courses in, in America, one of the founding courses in America. Um,
Patrick Bowe: (20:54):
And there was also a, a fire in the national, uh, museum of Art in Brazil that wiped out the entire museum,
Drew Slocum: (21:02):
The entire museum.
Patrick Bowe: (21:03):
Yeah.
Drew Slocum: (21:04):
That's crazy. Yeah. I, I just don't understand some of the, uh, the mentality behind that. It's, you know, you know, even on the insurance side of things, you, you would see that, you know, you think, or you can't even insure that because it's priceless. So, yeah, definitely. Well, um, yeah, I would love to chat a bit more about with, uh, a few other topics here in the future. Love to have you on. Is there anything, you know, apco, peerless, I want to give you a little shout out to, to what you guys are doing over there. Is there anything, uh, specific that you guys handle within fire protection or,
Patrick Bowe: (21:45):
So, um, we're a full service company. Uh, we've been in business this year, uh, for 61 years. And, uh, wow. We, we do all kinds of different stuff. Um, you know, the majority of the work that we do is in commercial office space, but, uh, we've been involved in a lot of different kinds of projects, um, and evaluated a lot of different, you know, kinds of hazards. Um, it's really been, you know, a privilege to be a part of the company and, uh, you know, kind of see, you know, I, I've been involved with it for, uh, directly for 10 years, but, um, my grandfather started the company, so it's been something that's been in my life for my entire life. Yeah. Your entire life. So it's, it's an interesting, um, it's an interesting business to be in and, uh, you get to see, you know, interesting things, uh, which I think is really a neat thing about construction in general, that you get to, you know, be a part of building something, which, um, is I think is a neat feeling.
Drew Slocum: (22:48):
Yeah, it is. And it is. And it, it, even if it's the, the passive fire protection system that, that we're putting in, uh, you know, there's still passion there, um, to see that everybody's protected, that the building's protected and, you know, we don't have any issues like we had last week. So. Yeah. Um, well, yeah, let, let's chat again here soon. So there's the, the final thing we do, and, uh, I haven't told you about this yet. We, we, we, we call it the quick response round. Okay. So it's a little corny, uh, little round where essentially I asked you two questions and you gotta pick one, one answer and uh, you only get one. It depends, cuz the first episode I had with Phil Gunning on here, he said, it depends, I feel like every question, cuz he didn't want to, he didn't wanna jump
Patrick Bowe: (23:37):
Out, didn't commit to anything.
Drew Slocum: (23:38):
No, no. But, uh, anyway, so we'll start it off. Um, would you rather go to a Notre Dame football game or a Yankees playoff game?
Patrick Bowe: (23:49):
Uh, I would say, I would say Yankee playoff game really? Only because, uh, I've seen Notre Dame lose so many times that I, you know, I feel like the Yankees are on the upswing here.
Drew Slocum: (24:02):
They are, they're a lot of fun to watch. Uh, uh, I, I think I'm getting to a couple games this year, but, uh Oh, nice. Up in New England now. So I'm not the, the most like person.
Patrick Bowe: (24:11):
I'm gonna pretend I didn't hear that
Drew Slocum: (24:13):
Well, I, I still get Yes, yes. Network. So I'm good
Patrick Bowe: (24:18):
Good.
Drew Slocum: (24:18):
Um, hard pipe or flexible drops.
Patrick Bowe: (24:23):
Hard pipe.
Drew Slocum: (24:24):
Hard pipe. Um, I know that's a big thing, especially in New York City lately, cuz it's a, uh, there's, there's a lot of stuff around that, but, um, yeah, I, I, I definitely can, can, can see that, um, black steel. So in a dry pipe system, black steel or galvanized
Patrick Bowe: (24:44):
Black.
Drew Slocum: (24:45):
Black. All right. Why, why uh, why do you say that?
Patrick Bowe: (24:50):
Uh, it lasts a lot longer.
Drew Slocum: (24:52):
Just the corrosion, corrosion
Patrick Bowe: (24:53):
Effect, the corrosion, uh, you know, there's actually been a lot of studies done that corrosion is actually worse in galvanized than it is in black pipe.
Drew Slocum: (25:02):
Yeah.
Patrick Bowe: (25:03):
In that application.
Drew Slocum: (25:04):
Yeah. Exterior wise, it's, it's probably still galvanized, but black steel definitely on the inside, that's where you gotta worry and uh, yeah, I'm think I'm gonna have a corrosion at episode here at some point, but that's, obviously, that's a pretty hot topic, I'm sure. Um, design build or consulting engineer
Patrick Bowe: (25:25):
Design build
Drew Slocum: (25:27):
Patrick Bowe: (25:30):
Came from the consult and the reason I say that is because what we're seeing more of now is like a design assist. Uh, you know, I wouldn't say it's, um, very prevalent, but you know, it seems like design engineers are, are moving away from the nitty gritty, um, coordination aspect of, of uh, putting stuff together and, you know, ultimately, um, ultimately, uh, the, the owner is, you know, it it's really up to what the owner wants to, uh, to pay for. Right. Uh, I think there is value in, um, in like a traditional design bid build process. I, I think it really depends on the project. Um, and it depends on the, the types of contractors that you have involved on that project. So if, uh, you know, if you're doing white box office space, you probably don't need to get, um, you know, the, what I would consider, uh, you know, the top of the line person involved in it cuz it's not very complicated, so. Right. You know, maybe that makes more sense for a, for a design bid build project, but when you get into stuff that's real complicated, um, you know, I think there is value in going directly to design assisted design build.
Drew Slocum: (26:48):
No, no, I agree. And obviously the project that you guys worked this podcast is about that was, that was performance based design build, but I've, I've worked on a lot of 'em myself and the, the fire protection contractor that is involved is usually very, um, uh, well-versed and, and what they're working on and a lot of times more than the, the consulting engineer and, um, obviously they're making money off the project because they are installing it, but they have, they understand that the cost that go into it so that the owner doesn't, you know, overspend or overdesign.
Patrick Bowe: (27:25):
Yeah.
Drew Slocum: (27:26):
Yeah. So, um, couple more, uh, Titleist or tailor made.
Patrick Bowe: (27:35):
Oh man. Are we talking balls or clubs?
Drew Slocum: (27:37):
Ah, all right. All right. Um, I'm, uh, let's go with clubs because I know it's more and it's closer.
Patrick Bowe: (27:44):
I go Taylor, Taylor made.
Drew Slocum: (27:45):
Taylor made. All right. All right. Yeah, I'm, I'm gonna tell you this man myself. Um,
Patrick Bowe: (27:51):
Well, I can't hit anything, so I guess it doesn't really,
Drew Slocum: (27:53):
Yeah. Well, you'll be back. You'll be back this year. Um, speak. Speaking of back injuries, um, what, uh, do you think Tiger, will you think he'll do it? You think he'll be Jack?
Patrick Bowe: (28:09):
Uh, I think he's got a long way to go. I think he's got a chance, but I think he's got a long way to go.
Drew Slocum: (28:14):
Uh, are you, uh, you heading out to Beth Page to, to see the pga? What,
Patrick Bowe: (28:19):
Uh, I might go see a round or two.
Drew Slocum: (28:21):
Yeah, I'll be there. I think I'm, I'll be there a couple, couple of days, so let's, uh, hopefully, uh, I'll, I'll let you know. We'll, uh, maybe see you out there.
Patrick Bowe: (28:30):
Yeah.
Drew Slocum: (28:31):
But, uh, hey, thanks for coming on and uh, again, I wanted to, you know, it's a, it's a hot topic right now with the, the Notre Dame fire, and I know you, you guys put a lot of great work into, um, uh, St. Patrick's Cathedral and great project for you guys. Wanted to highlight some of the, some successes you saw there and how you've worked with the different authorities and the, and, and getting that that project done. So it's nice and safe.
Patrick Bowe: (28:58):
Thanks for having me. And, uh, yeah, always, always a pleasure to, to talk about that.
Drew Slocum: (29:03):
Cool. Thanks Pat.
Patrick Bowe: (29:05):
No problem.
Drew Slocum: (29:07):
This is Ben, episode five of the Fire Protection Podcast, powered by Inspect point. I want to give a big thanks to Patrick be of Apco Peerless. It's been a tough topic over the last week with the holidays and everything with the Notre Dame fire, but, you know, sometimes it does take a tragedy to show that we actually can do some great fire protection out there with some of the different systems. Obviously, uh, APCO Peerless has done a great job with St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. Oliver done a great job down in Philadelphia with that cathedral as well. So wanna point out the good parts out there that some, some places are protected and we need to get some more of these historical places protected to ensure that we keep history alive. So again, thanks for tuning in and please subscribe like the podcast again, a lot more coming and see you next time. Thanks.